Poll: Should Ukraine into Europe, or Russia?
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03-01-2014, 07:37 PM,
Post: #1
So, I'm rather amazed no one had taken it within themselves to make a thread for this. It's been rapidly growing news lately, after all. Anyhow, for people who don't know, protests have gotten violent in Kiev, Ukraine after their government decided to split from Europe and go back to Russia. The country went up in flames, and overthrew the government. Now, because of the uprising, Russia is stepping in, and decided to use military force after a unanimous agreement to allow military force to assist Ukraine. I'd like to hear your thoughts on the matter.
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03-02-2014, 07:21 AM,
Post: #2
RE: Ukraine
I'm surprised I didn't make this topic.

Yanukovich was a legitimately elected leader brought to power mostly by a push of ethnic Russians living in the wealthier "eastern" regions of Ukraine, where wages are more than double those of the western agricultural regions. Ethnic Rusyns (my people) also assisted in his election, if I'm correct. This means that minorities in Ukraine wanted him as leader for protection. I've been comparing the conflict in Ukraine to if DC went into riots over Romney and we had to be Democrat-governed forever because DC is a Democrat constituency. Who would want that? No one. Yet the media and the powers that be in the West are pushing for that to be a reality in Ukraine.

Also, the new government of Ukraine has begun to remove the rights of the ethnic Russians, with ethnic Rusyns already forced to call themselves Ukrainian and, as a people, derecognized. The problem Ukrainian politicians found in the 90s was that over 40% of Ukraine doesn't know the Ukrainian language. To make the minorities able to live in the country and prosper, the majority of the country was placed under one centralized government with a language law so that people who didn't know Ukrainian could advance themselves easily, while Crimea and Sevastopol have been given a Russian autonomy (basically -- Sevastopol, in fact, is officially governed by Russia by treaty).

Overall, the fact that the Russian and less so Rusyn minority groups have prospered relative to the Ukrainian "majority" has basically made people envious. Even under Yanukovich, the western regions were only developing with the support of the eastern regions, which were taxed to subsidize growth in the west. Therefore, one could argue that a split is the best possible solution. However, the entire issue with their integration into either side is that the EU wants to starve Russia of the agricultural capacity of the western regions. Once the eastern regions' wealth is factored into the equation, this means that both sides (EU and Russia) want to take both halves of Ukraine as a whole. A split would be more a benefit to the West than the East because it would create a famine in Russia, where they have not managed to rebuild their agricultural industries yet. Notably, this would make Russia economically dependent on the United States, which would allow the West to exploit Russia as a cheap oil source.
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03-23-2014, 10:16 PM,
Post: #3
RE: Ukraine
Update (quote from myself on another forum):

Quote:Alright, let's exclude Hetalia jokes for a second and be serious about this.

History of the Crisis:

Ukraine had to decide if they would sign an association agreement with the Western EU or join the Eastern "Customs Union" in October.

Ukraine decided to join the Customs Union, prompting several Western figures to fly to Kiev and make speeches against Russia.

These speeches, particularly those by John McCain (who called for the overthrow of the government of Ukraine), incited protests which intensified into riots relatively quickly.

Fast forward to February. Mysterious snipers (branded by the West to be Ukrainian "Berkut" police) are killing people, protesters and police alike, "indiscriminately".

These snipers cause a "revolution" or "coup" on 22 February.

President Yanukovich requests assistance from Russia after the new government dissolves all courts in Ukraine and throws out the Constitution in order to perform his never-completed ejection, thus Yanukovich is legally still President of Ukraine.

Currently, Ukraine is being governed by the "National Guard", a police/military hybrid force which reserves the right to arrest and imprison anyone without court warrants or anything. Essentially martial law.

The political parties (primarily Yanukovich's "Party of Regions") which support the Customs Union have been outlawed. In other words, if you don't want to join the EU, you're out of luck. The government has already banned your beliefs. Democracy is not present in the new Ukraine.

Back to those "mysterious snipers". Who were they? The Western media says they're Berkut, but we don't know who they really were.

I believe they were hired arms of the EU and/or Maidan opposition. They shot police -- a move police officers would never take -- and the Estonian FM confirmed a leaked phone call in which he says they "might" be Maidan (or if you're watching RT, they are Maidan)...Also, the Ukrainian officials at the time said that they were using opposition-occupied buildings which were seized from the authorities during the riots. This would indicate that the government did not hire them, leaving the possibilities that the EU or Maidan could have hired them, since Russia probably wouldn't stage an overthrow of a friendly government just to invade them later.

I hope you've been informed by this post. Or at least read it.
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